:: Smiling Spring/not seriously/despite atomic age/system failure ::
::| an.exquisite.corpse : discussion : 23 |::
That's great! So cohesively incohesive! The continuation of style is perfect. Feels like a dadaist take on pop-art. And so many fun little details. I especially like the stacked lego men and the polar bear scaling the wall. And my eye keeps getting drawn to the albino guy who's about to get beaned by the little devil.
I have to give kudos to Pascziek for leaving a glaring seam, yet making the panel work as a conclusion to the corpse.
Great job, all of you!
dagfooyo at May 20, 2006 10:01 AM
hmmm... the purply bits look familiar
tony at May 20, 2006 11:15 AM
Well not too bad for my first one :P I like what you did off my slice, Maria :) Didn't know it would take so long to see the corpse, but I'm anxious to do another one. And everyone thinks they're lego men, though its not what I had it mind, thats great :D
xanthippe at May 20, 2006 1:25 PM
hmmm... commentary from tony, how unfamiliar... lol
jakedrews at May 20, 2006 3:26 PM
That seam is unfortunate ... you can talk about connecting to the corpse, but the corpses had been so good lately that I was hoping to keep the streak on ... whatevs. Art is art.
moonroof at May 20, 2006 4:46 PM
I'm sorry, but I think that the seam at the bottom sucks. There, I wasn't going to say anything... but I am really trying here, and I'm thinking maybe it isn't worth it... or maybe i'm premenstrual. should I post this? what the hell, here it goes.
Maria P at May 20, 2006 6:31 PM
The title works well though.
Maria P at May 20, 2006 6:33 PM
I agree about the seam, Maria. The strip you passed to Pascziek was really great, very nicely extendable.
In instances of blatant seaming, I always want to hear from the artist. I'd like to know how the seam came to be. Occasionally one will say something like, "Oh, I thought it would look better than that. I'll try harder next time." But without knowing their methods, or their thinking, it is difficult to give constructive criticism to prevent poor transitions in the future. Usually, it seems, a bad seamer never posts comments, and never responds to them.
Honestly, I'm confused: how could such a seam happen? Why would someone not extend that ladder, or those nice black blobs-on-sticks things? Is this an instance of malice, or just a technical failure?
Pascziek, if you read this, PLEASE let us know. We want everyone to make great corpses, and we need input from people when it goes wrong if we are all going to improve as a group. Your input would be most helpful. Please tell us the story of your piece.
doctormatt at May 21, 2006 12:12 AM
yeah, actually, the bottom slice does really suck. i didnt want to say that. can we remove it and have someone else make a better one? heheheh. too late for that :P
xanthippe at May 21, 2006 11:37 AM
If you check Pascziek's profile, you'll see that this is his or her first slice. I suspect this player just didn't understand the idea of connecting the slice.
I stand by what I said. I am a person who tends to try and see the good in anything, even (maybe especially) if it's done in an "inappropriate" way.
If you look at the first few corpses in the archive, they were all like this. It's a different style.
If every corpse was perfectly seamless, it'd get boring. As great as the last several corpses have been for their perfect transitions, I guess I just like to see that somebody's still mixing it up a bit. Though in this case, it was probably first-corpse inexperience rather than intentional. Still, in a jumbled, chaotic, whimsical corpse like this one, I feel it works. Especially since the middle two panels are complex and detailed, and the top and bottom ones are simple. Gives it some balance.
On the other hand, I know I hate it when elements in my panels aren't continued. For example, although most people loved panel four in corpse 399 - http://anexquisitecorpse.net/crypt/2006/04/mack_the_knifep.php - I was very dissapointed that none of my elements were continued, except the lines, and some of the color scheme. I would especially have liked to see what my reverse strawberry turned into.
So I feel your pain, Maria. Would have been interesting to see what a more experienced corpser could have done with the fourth panel in this one.
And xanthippe, nice to see a new player who gets the continuation thing right off. If they aren't lego people, what are they?
dagfooyo at May 21, 2006 2:24 PM
For clarity's sake, when I say "the first few corpses" I mean from
http://anexquisitecorpse.net/crypt/2001/08/it_beginswithou.php
this one onward. And you can see that these are just as dramatic seams. They don't flow as much, but they still look damned cool.
dagfooyo at May 21, 2006 2:41 PM
Do you folks only know how to be nasty? Its the nasty ones I am addressing here. Do you only comment when you can find something snide or ugly to say? Get a grip people horizontal lines exist and they are not inherently wrong just because they happen to fall at a certain pixel level. The entire issue might have been avoided in this corpse if the colours had matched as there is a pretty good blend to the left but not everyone has the same levels of technology or skill so a perfect match every time is unlikely. Even with that disparity this is a darn good effort for a first timer. No wonder no one wants to discuss things with you - Some of you are blind as well as nasty. Welcome to Pascziek - I hope you don't take these comments to heart and allow it to stop you from playing.
lilah at May 21, 2006 3:21 PM
Oh, look - there's no need to tear into anybody. I apologize if my comment was harsh. I had a look at the earlier corpses and yeah, maybe we're getting a bit obsessed with seamlessness...Pascziek, I'm sorry, this IS just a game. Please play again!
Maria P at May 21, 2006 4:56 PM
I've noticed that most of the comments posted are positive
jimdrews at May 21, 2006 6:30 PM
I apologize to the collective if my comment was not positive enough. I want more people to make more corpses, and I want more people to make better corpses.
Encouraging people to play is easy and important: we find something positive to say about as many pieces/corpses as we can, and people get some positive reinforcement, and they continue to play, and get addicted to those accolades. I promise to endeavor to encourage more openly.
Encouraging people to play better is harder, and, obviously, much more contentious. What is "better", for starters.
As has been said over and over, the game is about extending the strip. That is, using ideas suggested by the graphics of the strip to create a further piece of the corpse. This suggestion/extension process can take a variety of forms. It can be, for instance:
(a) an attempt at a smooth graphic transition, i.e. an attempt to make the new piece visually seamlessly connected to the strip (and hence the previous piece),
(b) a use of a motif (polka dots! or religion!), shape(horsey! or pointy!), color(mauve!) etc. suggested by the strip (e.g., a horse in piece 1, horse in piece 2 kind of thing)
(c) other things I've not thought of (Suggestions?)
(d) combinations of the above.
In general, success at this game, at least in the transtions, seems to have some relation to the amount of information in the strip that the new piece incorporates. The more the better, or so it seems the collective consciousness has determined. This is my assessment, based on my own aesthetic feelings and the readings of comments and forum discussions. This is, like everything else debatable.
As lilah correctly, I think, points out, horizontal lines exist. This is true, and is not the real issue in seaminess. I think the real issue is how much information is incorporated.
By way of example, a "fresh prince" is the name for a total lack of inclusion of information suggested by the strip. On the scale of success transitionwise, this is a failure.
From the "fresh prince" level up, there is a wide spectrum of information inclusions levels. One might just grab the color from a single pixel of the strip, and use that color as the background for the new piece, not including any of the other colors or elements in the strip. One might pick two colors, one from the left, one from the right, and use those, but no other elements. All the way up to a pixel-by-pixel extension, using, essentially every pixel in the strip to define the extension into the new piece. (This is rather a method (a) approach; this seems to be the most popular, from what I can tell by people's results).
Most work that I see looks like the player was trying to do method (a) using lots of information from the strip, even if there is a very clear visual seam. When a seam does appear, I usually figure it is due to a lack of time, an altered state of consciousness, insufficient technique (i.e., the player did not know how to do what the player wanted to do), frustration, monitor adjustment (so two different colors look the same), compression problems, etc., but I never really know. These seams intrigue me the most, but they aren't that bad in the overall scheme of things, since lots of information from the strip was used (hurrah!).
In the instance of a new person, especially, more questions may come up. What method was being attempted? What was the player trying to do? Do they agree that "extending the strip" is the idea, or are they trying to do something else (what?)? Were they hampered by their tools? I would like to know partly because I'm just curious, but also because I think we can improve the success rate by understanding each other better, and providing informative, helpful resources. This is why I ask.
Even if there are no negative comments, I believe we lose first-timers sometimes because there is insufficient information available on how to make a "successful" transition. It seems to me that some make one "bad" one, see it looks "bad", and go away. I think we can improve this situation.
It is just a game, but I feel that the unexamined game is not worth playing. So I examine, and play.
love to all,
Matt
p.s. pointy!
doctormatt at May 21, 2006 8:16 PM
Pascziek might be new, but new players ought to read the rules (few as they are) and abide.
"Player [4] should bear in mind, however, that the strip should not be modified to the point that it no longer connects with the section it came from."
Does the cowhide connect to the mushroom cloud? No.
Does the "ladder" extend to the new slice? No.
Do the figure's feet extend to the new slice? Nope.
Is there any extension of the haz-mat suit? Nada.
Does the "ladder" transition nicely to the mallet? Hardly.
Does the background color match? Not really.
Should lilah be offering advice on good corpsing? Sure, like Dick Cheney should teach gun safety.
FogBaron at May 21, 2006 9:06 PM
The middle two panels are excellent - well done xanthippe and maria P. My condolences about the seam, but the overall corpse does nearly survive it.
Pascziek - I think you show promise, but you can see how well panels can work when a bit more care is taken to blend in the elements offered.
Otherwise it's like playing tennis with the net down. :)
AndyFromJava at May 22, 2006 6:07 AM
lol... Fogbaron, you crack me up! I agree with everything you said. =)
Crucibelle at May 22, 2006 2:44 PM
To all in general: I apologise for my strong reaction to comments posted which I read as being unkind, snide or mean. It is the single reason I refrain from posting on most corpses or even reading much of the commentary since, unfortunately, these sorts of comments are prevalant. I really, underneath my anger, feel sorry for those who have so little self esteem that they feel the need to rip someone else apart. I know I shouldn't let it anger me - but words do hurt people and I dislike seeing folks hurt others for no cause. It is one thing to suggest a way a transition or a design could have been improved and quite another to just baldly state it is bad with no suggestion on how to make it better or specifics about what made it 'bad'. Valid critique should contain both but at least one would be nice -
DrMatt: You are a voice of reason and I agree with you. When I first joined, I asked numerous questions specifically requesting information on how many elements to use as a starting point to carry through in order to make a 'successful' transition one that would satisfy some of the more anal on this forum. No one would even address the issue. Its impossible to say, I heard, or it varies in every situation. I agree it would vary with every situation and no easy answer exists for all corpses. However, while a starting point in the instructions would be useful, even without such a specific starting number, what is most helpful is discussion such as you present here.
Fogbaron: There is alot more to look at than just what an object might literally be when viewing a piece of art. You seem to be hung up on the what of things and your narrow view is apparent when you critique. Instead of focusing on a mushroom cloud vs cowhide why not try to focus on the overall patterns of value (light/dark) which that section presents. When the mushroom cloudness and cowness are removed from the mix there is a flow of light/dark in that section which make a pretty good surreal transition even though there is still a value change. It puts the cloud in the background behind the ladder and the figure steps off onto the beginning of the darker area which creates a plateau of sorts - it could be a puddle existing in a melting patch of snow or some inky substance leaking from the thing in the center - try squinting when looking at something or stepping back from the screen so you don't get so hung up in details that you miss other elements. Oh and mostly please try to watch what your brain sends to your fingers to transmit here. I am well aware you have no respect for my efforts and very little for anyone else's when they don't fit your preconceived ideas about what is 'good'. I really don't care about or need your approval but I also really dislike reading nasty, snide and pointless comments directed towards me or others and while you are not the only one who does this some are more subtle about it -
Design point: A prominent element set into the center of a panel (or image in general) tends to stop the eye and halt the flow through out the piece. In school, this is taught as being poor design in anything except advertising.
Ok I'll shut up again :)
lilah at May 23, 2006 9:35 AM
Thanks for the pointer, lilah, I'll watch that one in the future.
Maria P at May 24, 2006 4:11 AM
Sorry, guys. Yeah, its my first corpse, and I didn't really understand how to connect it. If someone could email me @ pascziek@yahoo.com, I would really appreciate it.
pascziek at May 24, 2006 8:35 AM
lilah: I think everyone's entitled to my opinion.
FogBaron at May 24, 2006 8:46 AM
pascziek, the easiest way is to work on your image with the slice that was emailed to you actually attached to your working image. (That is, start with a 400x215 pixel image, with the 15-pixel slice already placed at the top; lock those top 15 pixels so you don't accidentally modify them while you work.) That way, the whole time you're working, you can see exactly how it'll match up with the previous image.
You might have a look at the forum, particularly the corpse mechanics section for other hints or suggestions.
Daniel at May 24, 2006 10:22 AM
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