:: you've got to/the boring way/fixing a hole/disharmony ::
::| an.exquisite.corpse : discussion : 46 |::
Poor lilah... she's been put through the ringer since she got here (and I've contributed to the flogging).
I think that as a working group we are starting to hold each other to
mattb at December , 0 12: AM
jake, my man, I'm amazed at the way you transitioned your whole panel and not just the first few pixels. I especially like the evolution of the eyes and also the morphing of the stick figure girl into a doll. Wonderful. And then the Sgt. Pepper cover pulls all the colors together so well.
I'm a fan of so many of the very talented artists on this site, but jake's is just an excellent panel for a relative newcomer.
Lilah's panel, on the otherhand, while interesting showed little creativity or imagination. Yet look what jake was able to do with it. That's what I'm talking about. Lilah, I know you can do it. Just keep working at it, girl.
murfinator at March 7, 2006 8:34 AM
Well I like it! Wait... Yes, I still like it. Good work (even the boring way looks appealing).
enclosed at March 7, 2006 8:36 AM
Okay...I'm not usually one to criticize. Honestly, I'm not - I believe that corpsing is for fun, and you do what you like to do. But I also feel this is a creative outlet for a lot of people, and we like to see fresh, new ideas for things, and to see creative minds at work.
I'm actually going to criticize for once, and although I don't like to do it, I feel something should be said.
Lilah - this is the second piece in a row you've done this with - simply taken your 15 pixels and copied it all the way down for your entire section. Although sometimes it's necessary to do so to try and continue a corpse section (and I know a lot of people frown on it - IMO you do what's necessary to get your idea going) - to just copy 15 pixels over and over again is just...well, unimaginative and somewhat on the "lazy" side of things.
I know you've got imagination in there. There's two other corpses where you've drawn your own ideas into it, and aside from "newbie mistakes" (which we've all had and are not immune to throughout our corpsing careers - I can think of a couple of my own that are forgettable at best) they were nice contributions.
I'm just hoping you take it as "constructive criticism" and not "bashing" you - because that's not my intent. But this place is for the imaginative and creative - hopefully next time you use just a bit more imagination. (And if you simply run out of time and/or draw a blank - I've done it before - just release your piece until one that inspires you comes along.) I know you've got it in there. Show it! :)
Sorry - just felt it should be said.
Shelly at March 7, 2006 8:42 AM
It's a strange thing when you have a wee glimpse of motiviation and production of a corpse and it's not your own. It changes perspective and the ability to find a way to approach it. Interesting.
I love Jessica's leading panel and the sense of texture on it. It looks like something I would want to touch and feel the grains, even at the risk of a hand slap.
Overall, and regardless of exercising The Boring Way; the transition from a more classic panel to jakedrews multi-level, multi-color collage works. Enclosed's colors and geometrics pull it all together and produce a nice close.
Perhaps it shouldn't by checks and measures, but it works for me. I like it.
~~~
And the Half Walnut's pondering of the day? Why is criticizing without providing constructive support and suggestions like masturbating in public?
Miroje at March 7, 2006 8:55 AM
Shit. I just read Shelly's commentary.
If there's any question, my closing comment has nothing to do with you, Shelly. That was particularly good commentary on your part.
Miroje at March 7, 2006 8:58 AM
lilah: You should have taken a pass.
FogBaron at March 7, 2006 9:45 AM
Without too much difficulty a pretty good corpse can result from the subtraction of the offending slice:
http://www.hyjinx.com/Corpse/cms0359a.jpg
FogBaron at March 7, 2006 10:26 AM
FogBaron,
Yep, that looks much better.
Crucibelle at March 7, 2006 11:57 AM
Fine, fine!
I like the way this one turned out, mostly. Jessica begins with a very striking single-figure image. The bottom 15 px may have been tough to transition, even for quite experienced players.
When I received the 15 px strip from lilah, I had no idea what to do with it - so I made a collage of sorts. I tried to leave my bottom 15 px strip relatively simple just in case...
But enclosed did a sweet job picking up on colors, geometry, etc. - nice job! I'm very pleased with panel 4.
Happy corpsing!
jakedrews at March 7, 2006 12:10 PM
Shelly - the panel is not totally pull down but still definately could have been more creative I agree. Perhaps I didn't do something more creative because when I did all I got was shredded. Perhaps I did it twice because no one picked up on my editorial comment the first time and even now it was not labeled as it was it is still not really understood. So what if I used a pulldown twice in a row? How many corpsers here use the programmed effects which are built in over and over in their slices and yet end up being called brilliant when in reality there is no stroke of genius or even much in the way of creativity apparent? (That was by the way a rhetorical question so please just think on it. You who use these things know who I mean, no need to reply.) Where were the helpful critiques giving techniques and pointers on smooth transitions when I needed and asked for them? (Not talking to either Miroje or Shae or Cicada here, you guys have been great).
Ok I have to say this - THIS IS COLLABORATION folks - by definition that means people working TOGETHER. Your panels are NOT sacred objects to be coddled and protected - They are part of a collective effort and the whole idea is to tap into the collective source and come out with something DIFFERENT than what you would have done yourself. How lame can you get as a community when you have standards you can't even translate into intellegent instructions. It would have been more than sufficient had someone mearly said something like - "you need to start off carrying X number of elements 1/3 of the way into your slice" or 1/4 or whatever it does take for the transition to smooth out, or "You need to carry at least 3 elements from the slice into your slice and 1 or 2 of them should travel way down through it". That would have given me a starting point that was meaningful but no one could bother to take the time to analyse what was done in successful corpses and pass the information on.
Fog: you may wish I would just go away but I don't think that will happen so I suppose you will just have to learn to tollerate me ... it is possible other have done it :) ... or not depending on how you like your bloodpressure.
I didn't pass the slice because I didn't want to pass it and I didn't do anything except use a stock technique to make a smooth transition which is what you all were yelling at me about in the first place. Ok so now you have your darn smooth transitions ... and yet another corpse that says not much about anything either with or without my slice. Lighten up folks this is a GAME - supposed to be fun for the participants. Put your darn egos in your pockets and lets work together here. You only harm yourselves and this community when you rip at folks for no good reason.
lilah at March 7, 2006 12:31 PM
hey enclosed,
i really apologize if that is an image of your mouth that you used...but it's really creepin me out. am i the only one? theres no lips. it stares at me. *shiver. im completely missing something arent i? oh well.
jake, i really like the way you transitioned the sticks into a doll. i keep getting drawn back to your panel.
as far as criticism vs. masturbating in public. i'd say they both offend the sensitive types but atleast a public jerking would atleast be entertaining to watch. criticism gets the big yawn as a spectator sport. : )
have a great day everyone.
cricket at March 7, 2006 12:35 PM
gross, excessive "atleast" use.
i should really look into that "Preview" button.
cricket at March 7, 2006 12:36 PM
Okay. My perspective was more from the limited scope of self-gratification and basing all value systems on whether the individual was (because I've loved this phrase ever since Husband #4 uttered it)"busting a nut" or not, but...you, Cricket, have a very good point.
It would be entertaining. You got me there.
Laughing Dwarf at March 7, 2006 12:47 PM
Enclosed, I get it now - very funny. I had lips with an eyeball - you did an eye socket with teeth - ha! It takes me a while sometimes...
jakedrews at March 7, 2006 12:48 PM
crikey! geez jake thanks for waiting until AFTER i made an ass of myself before posting your latest note. eyeball with teeth. got it. crap.
cricket at March 7, 2006 1:03 PM
cricket, it was your comment that helped me figure out what was going on.
By the way, thanks for following up with Corpse 390. I was worried that my panel would be unappealing. My last two starters have been solo for quite a while - I thought I was too "out there" with them. Eager to see finished product.
jakedrews at March 7, 2006 1:11 PM
i'm glad i could help!
my first corpse was way too busy. i just wanted to use the many ideas that i kept coming up with...instead it looked like i vomited all over my corpse. haha oh well. Premature corpsing. Corpse 390 intrigued me. Lets see how i doooo. Crap, i hate corpse anxiety.
cricket at March 7, 2006 1:24 PM
Lilah: this post is entirely in the spirit of helpfulness as you requested...
for help in transition effects it's probably best to study how others have handled the problem. here you can study transition ala collage style by looking in the archives. for non collage style transitions you could study the ec's/quilts at http://tiles.ice.org/index.php?display=complete
in the posts on your previous corpse i noted that you refuse to use adobe products and that you are currently using psp. i take psp then to mean 'paint shop pro'[which i prefer]and i found that the best way to get to know any prog is to find some simple tutorials online and follow through with a small handful of them. lame as some tutorials may be, they will familiarize you with the new prog, the location of a lot of the tools it has, and show you some options that you may not have been aware of without the tutorials.
so basically study how others solved the problem successfully [and un successfully] and familiarize yourself with your new program.
p.s. i have some newer psp versions [7 and 8], but i find myself using psp5 most often. the later versions have some cool eye candy but 5's ease of use makes it the best overall version imo.
peace. hope that helps.
tony at March 7, 2006 2:04 PM
Just want to say that I love your slice, enclosed. The bright colors and the cool little squares inspire me.
Shae at March 7, 2006 2:05 PM
Art Dollars.
Is that like Chinese Hell Money?
Miroje at March 7, 2006 4:54 PM
So I'm feeling really psychic or insane.
Matt?
Maybe It's a 1/4 Walnut at March 7, 2006 5:01 PM
Sign me up for a million art dollars. You know, in Belgium, before they adopted the Euro they had some Magritte money:
[url]http://www.banknotes.com/BE149.JPG[/url]
I do wish people would ease up a little. What is the consequence of a "failed" corpse? Nothing. They can't all come out perfect. For me personally, the idea of hurting someone's feelings over how they're playing a game is a little more substantial. I actually go to the urls linked in player's profiles, and lilah's work is strong, go look for yourself. She's talented and brave.
Lilah, do your thing, follow your natural instincts and don't worry about doing something that will please the rest of us.
Cicada at March 7, 2006 5:14 PM
yistergirl:
[if you're listening]
Jakes slice here is a excellent example of how flipping/repeating the really can work! recommended or no.
And lilah:
Personally, I might've taken some kind of 'blending' tool to the 'steps' and more obvious seams. Gradually, the blending process may change things in unexpected ways - the results beginning to suggest something different for me to develop, and bring out. Well, that's how the creative process works for me.
Colin Vincent at March 7, 2006 5:16 PM
Oh, that was weird. I saw it too Miroje.
Cicada at March 7, 2006 5:16 PM
Yeah, and what Cicada said, about people's feelings being the more substantial thing. I don't think we intend to hurt, very often, but intentions aren't always apprehended accurately - even, face to face.
BTW:
Lila - I reckon that green-button, accordian cum choc. bar cum subway thingy you've got going there, is pretty darn interesting, in it's own right.
Colin Vincent at March 7, 2006 5:46 PM
Somehow mattb's comment, a part of it, that Miroje and I responded to ended up at the top of the list and is dated Dec 0, 0000. Weird.
Cicada at March 7, 2006 5:57 PM
I really love what this turned into, in the end. The title's disjointed grammar fits. I wish the second panel was something other than a series of pastes, but the suggestion of so many different things (I keep seeing cigarettes or a martini, some subconscious desert to the partial pot pie) without ever becoming has its own itchy cerebral value.
What were you saying up there, mattb? This often seems less like a working group than a platform for dissonant defensive diatribes that might be more at home where they could be honed: the high school debate club. F*ck [antagonistic apologie]; let's art.
Jessica at March 7, 2006 6:45 PM
hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha....ohh...haha...hah.
billporter at March 7, 2006 7:42 PM
How much do you have to tell someone before they get it? I'm an asshole I know, but really... Most photo-editing comes with a tutorial or help lessons. PLEASE look into that.
billporter at March 7, 2006 7:49 PM
Lilah -
Hopefully the "scathing end" of your response wasn't compltely directed at me - I was just trying to offer some constructive criticism. Normally, I *do* feel as you do - and I think many people here feel the same - that our slices *aren't* meant to be "coddled" or whatever, and that this is a collaborative effort. But it's a collaborative effort of the imagination. The joy in the game is seeing other people's imagination at work. We all like to see what other's thought the 15pixels *might* have been - what inspired them to move on with what they did - and many times it's very wrong - which leads to amazing contributions (and sometimes *really* nasty contributions! There's plenty of duds to go around, as well!). Perhaps this is why I was disappointed with your section - we didn't see what you thought it "might have been"...we only see what it already is over and over again.
As for needing tips on blending and stretching out that 15 pixel strip - there's beaucoup discussions on it in the forum (check out the threads on Corpse Mechanics: "Extending Down", "Blending", and "Incorporating the 15 pixel strip" - there's *all* kinds of suggestions and tips there on how to do it, and they've been there for a while. I guess it might have helped if someone had pointed you to the forums before, and I apologize for not having thought of it before.
But anyway, yes, this *is* a game of creativity. Which means specific instruction and "analyzing successful corpses" is in the eye of the beholder. It's very hard to pick apart creative and artistic items and try to insert a formula for success - it can't be done. The best way, I suppose, to do so would be to see what *shouldn't* be done. But Imagination and creativity should *always* be done here - no matter what method you choose to use. Yes, copying the 15 pixels has worked before - in fact, in the last piece you used it in, it was great. But to see it twice in a row was a bit disappointing - it said to me that you've already given up, just when you've started. And I hate to see a budding artist just quit - that's more disappointing than anything.
Hopefully, you take some of this and think about it - I've noticed you tend to be a little on the defensive side - and (at least on my end) none of the comments were meant to put you on guard, or make you feel attacked. It was simply constructive in nature, and I'm hoping to see more of your own creativity come in to play, as we've seen before. No one here starts out "perfect"...and I don't think anyone here thinks they *are* perfect (and those that do usually don't last very long here LOL) - but we like to see progression and passion in the pieces that come in and get put together. For the joy of the game!
Shelly at March 7, 2006 8:14 PM
Lilah
I know the anguish you meet each time it is your turn, I feel it too. If it wasn't for my friend ___ who takes me by the hand and teaches me while I say what I want to do and then shows me how to do it, I wouldn't ever be able to figure it out. I have a photoshop book and that helps too. The thing is....I try to be creative (in my own way, like you do, but I follow the words on the front page of this site....)
"It is a collaboration between a small number of artists, each with little to no idea as to what has gone before, creating a (hopefully) single, unified and otherwise unique work that could not be created any other way. Graphic skills, while important, need not be a barrier to participation. Flexibility, creativity, humor, and openness are indispensible. "
This has helped me alot.
Wild........ at March 7, 2006 8:32 PM
I take it back and concur with Wild's last words on the subject. Keep trying. P.S. Just don't mess with poop or Fresh Prince.People tend to get antsy about that sort of thing.My pet peeves are too much text and up until last week I couldn't stand butterflies. Anyhow, I do not think criticism, even my own(constructive or otherwise), should upset anyone in the least.(there are lines to be drawn, like outright threatening or hurtful statements directed at another artist personally is going too far) That's life and it is not always seemless. Don't give up art if you like it, and don't give up being willing to tune in. I think that's a bit more about what it's about than style as well, but we are trying to tune in, and at the same time integrate or own instruments to create a song. Sometimes it's melodic, sometimes it's noise. Fnord.
billporter at March 7, 2006 10:59 PM
Lilah,
I think the suggestion that you try some tutorials is a great one. Also, you could take two images (they could be your own) and try blending them together to make one seamless image. That might help. I think lack of skills with whatever graphics/image editing program you are using is what's holding you back. We all have to start somewhere. It took me almost a year to figure out photoshop (I'm slow). :O
Crucibelle at March 8, 2006 1:06 AM
hmm, that is strange... My last comment was this long-winded I'm-so-wise blathering entitled Get Along (Can't We (All Just)?). Either Phineas decided that it wasn't worth the pixelspace or the website chocked a wobbly. Either way, you all win.
...Or the CMS has deemed me the new messiah. Some people really would take that date as a sign. Come my children, let me lead you to the light.
mattb at March 8, 2006 10:10 AM
ahahaha
cricket at March 8, 2006 10:44 AM
Damn.
I think this means that Cicada and I are out a million art dollars.
Well, maybe I can make it up by selling tabloid trash about the New Messiah. ;)
Miroje at March 8, 2006 11:53 AM
Oh MY~!!!
Tony: I have used psp for years though just for minor photo editing and basic graphic design work. I have an updated version waiting to be installed and hopefully that will help quite a bit. The program I was using not only got the colours all messed up but it didn't have very good tools or if it had them I couldn't figure out how to make them work. Now I will have a program I am at least familiar with and yes I will find tutorials for what I don't know. Basic, but very sound advice thanks.
Cicada: No worries a very wise old writer who is now collected by the Boston University Library used to tell me often, 'Never take reviewers' comments to heart, whether the reviews are good or bad, it can have a negative effect on your work.' I do however, thank you for your very kind words and I am glad you enjoy my real life work. Despite the good advice given by that writer, who just happened to be my step dad and one of my best friends, I still, very much enjoy hearing when someone does like what I have done.
Colin Vincent: You spoke of using the blending tool and now at least I again have one. I will definitely put it to use in future slices. A subway car huh? Could be I suppose my subconscious memories of the daily travels back in the day when I lived where the 7th Av I.R.T runs.
Shelly: No! My scathing remark was not directed at you particularly. You at least were trying to give some helpful advice. Although I would caution you not to talk down to people. Creating a formula for early success CAN be done if we just don't get lazy about it. So far I have determined that carrying colour through is one of the basic elements that can smooth a transition and if 2 other elements are added to that and descend far enough into the slice you are working on a smooth transition is just about guaranteed. At least that would apply to the corpses I have studied thus far. As to what is perceived as a 'Fresh Prince' well, I'm sure there will be further disagreements on that. :)
Crucibelle: Nope you aren't slow. Photoshop is ridiculously illogical and not at all instinctive to use. Plus with every update they move things around and you have to relearn the entire thing. For some reason Adobe seems to think their programs exempt from industry standards or maybe they think they are setting a new standard who knows. I just don't like their products.
Wild...: Nope sorry you don't understand since I don't feel anguish over anything about this game. Just mild annoyance at the immaturity and arrogance of some of the folks. I do appreciate your kindness and encouragement though.
Bill Porter: :) Don't worry, I am not about to give up art. I'm in this biz for well over 40 years and not going to change my life because some folks on a game don't like my learning slices. I make no bones about being an art snob - I have always preferred the 'get messy' sort of art and I don't see my preferences changing any time soon. I have also always, in the past, turned my nose up at digital media as something less than serious in the world of visual art. It still isn't a serious media to me and I doubt it will ever get to be one. I far prefer things of substance like stone and metal. That said, I do see this as a fun game (that is what it is isn't it?). A relaxing and entertaining way to unwind from the real world. It is not my major artistic outlet nor could it ever be, but I do realize that for some it has to be their major outlet for various reasons and I will continue to do my best to take it at least semi-seriously.
All in all folks - there is an amazing amount of talent on this site and I, for one am glad to be here and look forward to playing further with all of you.
lilah at March 8, 2006 5:27 PM
oh. for. grr.
burnunit at March 8, 2006 9:08 PM
burnunit,
What do you mean?
Crucibelle at March 8, 2006 11:53 PM
crucibelle, I wrote a fairly lengthy response to the ongoing dialogue and either it got dableeted by an error or perhaps by administration before it ever posted. I was trying to be all balanced n'shit, but there's still some things scattered thru here that got my blood up. whatever, it's not that important I imagine.
burnunit at March 9, 2006 6:22 AM
Lilah: You ask why "corpsers here use the programmed effects which are built in over and over in their slices and yet end up being called brilliant when in reality there is no stroke of genius or even much in the way of creativity apparent?"
Because their slices look GOOD. I was going to refrain from commenting on this corpse but after seeing this comment of yours I feel justified in pointing out that your slice ruins this corpse in a way no slice has done for some time.
Patrick Beverley at March 9, 2006 12:56 PM
Opinions vary :) You are certainly entitled to yours.
lilah at March 10, 2006 12:25 AM
Get a diary, or a slam book. Please. [Great to see such self-contradictory edicts boiled down to a single line, tho.]
Jessica at March 10, 2006 2:54 PM
Yikes!
I thought this looked like a fun project and was about to sign up.
However, that was before I realized that this is a serious site, and for refined aesthetes only!
Don't worry, I'm not signing up, and I won't be ruining any of your important corpses!
Joe at March 12, 2006 11:23 PM
I spotted a run of pixel steps on the thumbnails and thought oh no, LS... Lilah Steps!
Liilah you have done it (nothing) again, haven't you?...
Come on, you are wrecking other people's efforts. You can do something better than that., Lilah, surely. I know this is just a game, but if a panel stands out so BADLY, it is a shame for the whole endeavour.
AndyFromJava at March 13, 2006 4:55 AM
An Exquisite Corpse is a collaborative experiment in the creation of visual art through the tapping of the collective unconscious...
{ read more }